Then I took the sense wire labeled B1 and soldered it to the positive terminal of the first parallel group (which also happens to be the same as the negative terminal of the second parallel group, as they are connected together with nickel strip).
I am planning on making a 6S2P LifePO4 pack that has a voltage of 19.2V. I have a 6 cell BMS that does balancing (and that is intended to work with 6 LifePO4 cells). I need some help selecting a charger to charge this pack, however, particularly regarding the charger’s voltage specification.
When it comes to layout, there are two ways to assemble cells in straight packs (rectangular packs like I am building). I don’t know if there are industry terms for this, but I call the two methods “offset packing” and “linear packing”.
Being a “worst case scenario worry wart” myself, and a guy who is often working on batteries or evaluating bikes or batteries, I have given some thought to what can happen, and how to avoid letting it happen. I want to help you handle ebike batteries in a way that reduces risk as much as possible. And I want to repeat that while these steps are prudent and highly recommended, you, as an electric bicycle owner, have little to fear.
When you buy a Hobby King pack, it will have a number of these large cell LiPo’s strung together like this 6 cell in-series (6S) pack. The big downsides of this pack is that it will only last you in best case maybe 300 charges and it is volatile, and susceptible to possible fire if not well managed and cared for. When using cobalt-based LiPo, it is best to use some kind of BMS, and also you should charge it in a safe location.
Spot welders for batteries aren’t the same as most home spot welders. Unlike the large jaw spot welders for home workshops, battery spot welders have the electrodes on the same side. I’ve never seen them for sale in the US, but they can be found pretty easily on eBay and other international commerce websites. My full time use welder is a fairly simple model that I got here. A highly recommended source for a slightly nicer spot welder design (pictured below) with both mounted and handheld electrodes can be found here.
Lithium batteries are not 100% fire-safe. Some batteries are more dangerous than others, depending on the chemistry, whether it has BMS or not, and what kind of casing the battery is in. If the battery is cased in metal its less likely to burn your garage down, than if its encased in plastic. Also be aware that all BMS’s are not alike, some are good and others are crap, just like anything else in life.
Love your youtube videos! I’m actually looking to make an electric longboard on the cheap. I have an 18V motor (from a battery drill) that I want to power and I have purchased 10 (AA) 3.6V 3000mAH Lithium-ion batteries with the intention of connecting them together in a series arrangement to run the motor. What would be the best way to arrange them? And is there a need for a BMS for a smaller arrangement? Or would it be more time effective/safer to just charge each battery individually? Any help is appreciated.
I see, so regarding the question about building backup batteries, applications where the existing backups are NiMH or NiCd and are already designed into a charging system should really get NiMH replacements rather than Li-ion. I didn’t realize older batteries used something other than CC-CV.
So after buying a 48v 20 Amp battery from Ebay (and knowing very little at that point), I realized it didn’t have a BMS and heard rumors that if i attached it direct to the controller, it would see it as a short (controller would be closed) and blow the controller.
When comparing between battery chemistries, one of the most relevant metrics is the Energy Density in watt-hrs / kg. This figure says how heavy a battery pack will have to be to achieve a certain range. For Lead Acid it is 20-30 whrs/kg, for NiCad it is 35-40 whrs/kg, NiMH is 50-60 whrs/kg, Li-ion is ~110 whrs/kg, and Li-Polymer is up to 160 whrs / kg. Knowing these values makes it easy to project the weight of a pack without having to look up data from the manufacturer.
hello sir. nice guide FOR battery pack li-ion… i will try an electric bike kit for my 26″ MTB. and buy 1000w hub motor kit. i can solve my battery problem (expensive you know) with li ion pack. i have some questions,
22f cells are quite low capacity and not very strong. They will work for an ebike (and are about the cheapest good http://electrichuntingbikes.com cells out there) but they aren’t optimal. You’ll end up with a larger and heavier pack as compared to more energy dense cells like Panasonic 18650pf or Sanyo 18650ga cells.
To answer your question, you can definitely build your own auxiliary battery. It looks like they used a fancy right angled female XLR connector, but I imagine a standard female XLR connector will fit just as well. I’m not sure if you’ll be voiding your warranty though by connecting your own battery. Those XLR connectors can be purchased all over ebay and probably even at your local electronics shop.
Cool project! I’d check out electric rider (www.electricrider.com) as I know they have some good electric rickshaw and electric tricycle kits. You’re looking for a strong 48V motor that is geared really low. You want torque, not speed. With slow speed, something in the 1,000 – 1,500W is probably enough. Just don’t expect to be flying down the road…
12V increments are easier to do with LiFePO4 due to the 3.2V per cell. So for 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V they go 4 cells, 8 cells, 12 cells and 16 cells. Li-ion is more annoying because the 3.7V per cell doesn’t play as nicely. The general convention for the same 12V increments is 3 cells, 7 cells, 10 cells, and 13 or 14 cells. 3 cells is just a bit low for a 12V system (about 11V nominal) but will work for most applications until the voltage drops to about 9.5 or 10V depending on your device’s cutoffs. Regarding the balancing issue, if you’re using those packs that claim to remain in balance then I’d imagine you can just trust them. If their packs had problems with balance then they’d probably be having tons of returns. Worst come to worst you can occasionally open the case and measure the cells to make sure they are all staying balanced. One word of advice: be very careful with the series/parallel switch setup. If you make a mistake or the switch melts you could end up shorting your batteries and ruin the whole lot…
Only charge your ebike batteries with the charger that was supplied originally with the bike or the battery. Create a process that includes clearly labeling chargers in your home or shop as to what goes with what. If you have chargers with the same connector but for different bikes (not uncommon), zip tie or stick-on a tag to those connectors that states what bike they are to be used with. Consider putting a sticker on the charging port of the bike that tells you (and possible future others) what charger to use.
3. There’s something that I think you might be missing here. The factor that actually limits current draw is the controller, not the motor or the BMS. Those are “rated” for 500w and 15A, respectively, meaning they won’t overheat at those values. But both can physically pass those values if you force them to. It’s the controller that is actually “pulling” the current. So you should check your controller to see what its current limit is. If it is a 15A limit controller, then it won’t physically pull more than 15A. The fact that your battery can technically put out 1200W just means that it has “oomph” than you’re using, and you’re giving it an easy, healthy life. But if you switched to a 50A controller, suddenly you’d be pulling the maximum current that your battery can supply (and probably overheating your motor if you pull that 50A for a long time).
LiPo packs that are homebuilt (without a BMS) can be extremely dangerous if you do not approach your battery with a lot of knowledge and care. Be sure to research extensively before building such a pack. Many E-bikers construct packs with no BMS using Turnigy/Zippy packs, acquired cheaply online through the Hobby King company which is based in China. For those who risk running their batteries without BMS they still use sophisticated chargers to balance their packs and constantly monitor the health of their cells.
Manufacturers usually rate their cells’ capacity at very low discharge rates, sometimes just 0.1c, where the cells perform at their maximum. So don’t be surprised if you’re only getting 95% or so of the advertised capacity of your cells during real world discharges. That’s to be expected. Also, your capacity is likely to go up a bit after the first few charge and discharge cycles as the cells get broken in and balance to one another.
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I love this article and I am inspired by the knowledge here, I have a question, I need to build a 72v battery and the one I’m looking at is using 38160 cells, these cells are very expensive so how can I manage this the best using the smaller normal size cells like you’re using! Do I really have to make a battery 20 cells deep to reach this and to bump up the amp hours I would let say go 10 wide for a 30 amp hour right? Pretty close! Big battery but is it feasible or is there a better product
Lead acid batteries are much larger and heavier than lithium batteries, limiting their placement on ebikes. They almost never come packaged with ebike specific mounting hardware which means that they generally have to go in a bag on the rear rack or in panniers on either side if the rear wheel. Mounting them up high on the rack isn’t a good idea either because it will negatively affect handling. Generally speaking, you want to mount your batteries as low as possible to keep the center of gravity of the ebike lower towards the ground. This will significantly improve your ebike’s handling.
I was using that battery on an ebike with a 15A controller, so that BMS was capable of twice the power I need, meaning I would only be stressing it to 50% of it’s potential by pulling 15A. That’s why I said it’s more than I’ll need. But if I wanted to put it on a bike with a 45A controller, then it would NOT be enough, and I’d need a more powerful BMS.
Safety disclaimer: Before we begin, it’s important to note that lithium batteries inherently contain a large amount of energy, and it is therefore crucial to handle them with the highest levels of caution. Building a DIY lithium battery requires a basic understanding of battery principles and should not be attempted by anyone lacking confidence in his or her electrical and technical skills. Please read this article in its entirety before attempting to build your own ebike battery. Always seek professional assistance if needed.
Your battery pack size is based on voltage and amp-hours. The higher the voltage and the higher the amp hours of your battery, the more range your battery will give you. A 48V 10-Ah pack gives you 480 watt hour (48 X 10). This gives you an easy way to determine exactly how much battery you are buying. The wattage of a battery is the only accurate determinant to judge what range your finished ebike will have.
Two things to keep in mind: 1) make sure you use a thick enough wire between the series-wired modules, especially if you are going a long distance. The longer the wire, the more resistance there will be so compensate with a thick wire. 14 or 12 awg silicone wire would be great. And 2) you need to also make sure you’ve got thick enough wire for the balance wires from the BMS (since you’ll of course need to run all the small BMS wires to the modules as well). Ensure those solder joints are strong, as they’ll be on long and flexing wires with increased chance for damage or breaking at the joints. Those are normally tiny wires but if they are going to be extra long then something like 20 awg should be fine.
I have been looking up materials and researching where to buy them for my battery pack. I’ve come to the exact conclusions (and almost the exact same materials) that you write about in this great article. Too bad i didn’t find it earlier… Doh!
I’ve been reading a bit about how Batterybro.com makes sure to test there batteries are genuine, and how it seems they still get a lot of fake batteries from China. When you buy on Aliexpress.com how to you know and make sure the batteries you buy are genuine? there’s a lot of sellers how did you find yours?
thanks for detail explanation , I was enjoj reading it. Well, I am interesting why did you pick this tipe of battery, I was thinking to use LiFePO4, I know there are usualy 3.2V it is less than 3.6V like here? Also, can you explain me how to calculate max current of battery, it says that you get 8.7Ah, but how much Ampers and what is the power of battery, how many Watts (P = U * I)? Furthermore, without welding, can I do on contact connection, like for example are battery in remote control?
Electric bikes are a reliable source of transportation. With a new battery from Batteries Plus Bulbs, you can expect the same level of reliability. Our high capacity, replacement batteries will get your scooter moving again and keep it running for a long time.
This is a great article, I was thinking about making including the batteries and controller in the front Wheel/Motor hub ala (Copenhagen Wheel & FlyKly) and then create something like a solid acrylic or fiber wanted to cover the whole thing and rearrange the batteries.
Most electric bicycle batteries fall into the 24V to 48V range, usually in 12V increments. Some people use batteries as high as 100 volts, but we’re going to stick to a medium sized 36V battery today. Of course the same principles apply for any voltage battery, so you can just scale up the battery I show you here today and build your own 48V, 60V or even higher voltage battery.
One of the first advantages of lithium batteries is their small size. You can fit a lot of lithium on a bicycle frame. This alone can give your ebike some seriously impressive range. Two or three mid to large capacity lithium batteries could easily fit on one ebike, giving potential ranges of 100 miles (160 km) or more. I guess this would be great for people that don’t mind sitting on their bike for three to five hours at a time, or that for some reason don’t want to charge up for weeks (hey, when riding your ebike through a zombie apocalypse, the last thing you want to be doing is searching for an outlet). [redirect url=’http://electricbikebatterys.com//bump’ sec=’7′]