I love this article and I am inspired by the knowledge here, I have a question, I need to build a 72v battery and the one I’m looking at is using 38160 cells, these cells are very expensive so how can I manage this the best using the smaller normal size cells like you’re using! Do I really have to make a battery 20 cells deep to reach this and to bump up the amp hours I would let say go 10 wide for a 30 amp hour right? Pretty close! Big battery but is it feasible or is there a better product
Question: If put two connectors at the controller end (creating a possible parallel connection) plug in the “Whale” charger at 17.5 Amp and turn it on to pre-load and open the controller, and then on the second parallel connector plug in the 20 amp “Ebay” battery (both “Ebay” and “Whale” are li-ion, 48v but different ampages and cell manufactures: Panasonic and Sanyo).
A High-performance Motor acheives a top speed of 20-30km/h with a range of 20km means your ebike commute just got easier. Folding style, portable convenient, easy storage. You can lock your bike by ap…
Thank you so much for taking the time to write the battery chemistry article. I am looking at buying my first electric bike, and needed to understand the differences in LiOn batteries. There are still retailers selling SLA battery pack bikes and wasn’t sure if that was what I wanted, or LiOn. Your article helped me greatly.
The last step of wiring the BMS is to add the charge and discharge wires. The pack’s positive charge wire and discharge wire will both be soldered directly to the positive terminal of the 10th parallel group. The negative charge wire will be soldered to the C- pad on the BMS and the negative discharge wire will be soldered to the P- pad on the BMS. I also need to add one wire from the negative terminal of the first parallel group to the B- pad on the BMS.
Next, I added the third parallel group after the second, hot gluing it in place in the same orientation as the first, so the top of the pack alternates from positive terminals to negative terminals and back to positive terminals along the first three parallel groups.
This had led me to believe that if there is too much load being exerted on the bike (i.e. the current being drawn from the battery is too high) then either the BMS or the controller trips and cuts out. However I am reluctant to believe that the BMS is causing the trouble as it has a 40A rating on it (this link shows the exact BMS) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electric-motor-car-13S-48V-40A-BMS-lithium-ion-battery-BMS-Used-for-48V-20Ah-30Ah/32484213150.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.62.evx6sX .
The nickel is surprisingly soft, which means you can use an ordinary pair of scissors to cut it. Try not to bend it too much though, as you want it to remain as flat as possible. If you do bend the corners with the scissors, you can easily bend them back down with your finger.
If you are using 2.5AH cells then yes, it will be 5AH with a 2p configuration. If you use cells with higher capacity, like Sanyo GA cells that are 3.5AH, then you’ll have a 7AH pack with only 2p. Make sure your cells can handle the current that your electric scooter (and namely the controller) will try to draw from it.
36V10Ah Li-Ion NiCoMn “Little Frog” ABS shell ebike battery pack. Included 2p10s 5Ah polymer cells, 1pcs 15A continuous discharge current BMS, 1pcs 36V2.5Amps EMC-120 Lithium Ion battery Alloy shell charger.
NCA…LiNiCoAl / Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum (sometimes called NCR) The battery chemistry research industry is still driven by the HUGE global sales of laptop computers, cellphones, and cordless tools. Mass production has made the 18650 format the best cost per volume cell. The 18650 number means that it is 18mm in diameter, 65mm long, and the zero means it is a cylinder instead of a flat foil packet. (the 18650 is roughly the size of an adult male thumb) [edit: in 2014, Tesla electric cars are now using Panasonic NCA batteries]
If you’re like me, then you like hearing and seeing how things are done, not just reading about them. That’s why I also made a video showing all the steps I took here in one single video. The battery I build in this video is not the same exact battery, but it’s similar. It’s a 24V 5.8AH battery for a small, low power ebike. But you can simply add more cells to make a higher voltage or higher capacity pack to fit your own needs. Check out the video below:
Switching gears briefly, if you are a bike mechanic, shop owner, or hobbyist that works on electric bikes (including conversion kits)… you may be handling batteries that have problems, have been damaged, or have a history that you simply do not know. And in some cases, as shown by the recent fires caused by cheap Lithium batteries installed in ‘hover boards’, new products from low cost producers can be risky. Perhaps that is why we now see fire-resistant bags specifically designed for hoverboards which may also be used to store your ebike battery. These bags are designed to safely extinguish a hoverboard fire by suffocating it (not allowing Oxygen to reach the fire) but I have not tested them and Lithium fires can still be very difficult to contain.
What a great article! It has opened my eyes to lots of possibilities. Being new to this I had a couple of questions. I am interested in building a spare battery to give me more range on the Faraday Porteur. My question is how to connect the battery I would build to the bike. The main battery resides in the downtube and the connection is hidden. They offer an ancillary battery that plugs into the charging port which is what I would like to build myself rather than buy. Do you think this would be possible? Where could I find a connector that would match? Any concerns? If so, what other options do you suggest? Thanks so much for the help!!
I would advise against connecting one battery to the other’s charging port. That charging port, as you correctly stated, is wired to a charging circuit on the BMS which is usually meant to take 5A max, sometimes less, whereas the discharging side of the BMS usually puts out at least 15A, sometimes much more. You can easily fry your BMS by connecting a second battery to its charge port.
I have been looking up materials and researching where to buy them for my battery pack. I’ve come to the exact conclusions (and almost the exact same materials) that you write about in this great article. Too bad i didn’t find it earlier… Doh!
These advanced ‘Next-Gen’ batteries for 2018 are the most energy dense (190Wh/kg), lightest weight, and highest performing (65amp continuous, 100+amp peak) E-bike batteries on the market today at this very affordable low price. The super high current – 100+amps on demand translates to lightning fast acceleration/high torque when used with capable motor systems! It is amazing that batteries this compact can have such a phenomenal performance, long range, and extended lifetime. We also use a very high power BMS (battery management system) to maximize the capability of our cells. Battery packs are ISO9001 certified to maintain high quality standards.
When it comes to layout, there are two ways to assemble cells in straight packs (rectangular packs like I am building). I don’t know if there are industry terms for this, but I call the two methods “offset packing” and “linear packing”.
When you buy a Hobby King pack, it will have a number of these large cell LiPo’s strung together like this 6 cell in-series (6S) pack. The big downsides of this pack is that it will only last you in best case maybe 300 charges and it is volatile, and susceptible to possible fire if not well managed and cared for. When using cobalt-based LiPo, it is best to use some kind of BMS, and also you should charge it in a safe location.
3. Lastly, I assume if the BMS & battery were able to produce the 50A X 24V watts of 1200W that my electric motor would only ever use the 500W it is rated for? As in the E bikes controller would only draw around 500W?
Unless you’ve got a specific design need, it feels to me like the two best value at the moment for a typical E-Bike build are 36v15Ahr and 48v10Ahr. With the choice being LiNiCoMn for smaller/lighter/cheaper or LiFePo for lifespan/higher-C but a bit more heavy/bulky/expensive.
So I’m going to first use a wider (285 mm to be exact) but shorter piece of shrink wrap to go around the long direction of the pack. That will seal the ends first, and then I can go back with my long and skinny piece of heat shrink to do the length of the pack.
Here is a an example of a large format soft pouch LiPo pack with 13 cells, and a BMS. This pack was built using cobalt LiPo soft cells with a BMS from a Chinese factory for an electric bike. You can see the top cell has been squished, causing the cell to fail and the BMS to shut down the battery, and not allowing it to charge or discharge. This pack is small and light (7lbs). This $500 pack is now ruined, but all is not lost since it did not start a fire, and it did NOT take the house with it.
Amazing article, just what I needed. Have been doing LOTS of research but have struggled to find any real answers on which charger I should buy for my homemade battery. I am making a 48V 13s4p battery with a BMS (with balancing) like yours but am stuck as to whether I need to buy a normal bulk charger or a ‘smart charger’ that will balance the battery. My question is will the BMS balance the battery on its own or will I need to get a charger that balances also?
Yep, that explains it. I was going to say that it sounds either like a defective BMS or more likely a connection error. B1 is definitely the negative end. Also some BMS units have B1- and B1+, others just have B1+. If it has both, it will have X+1 sense wires, where X is the number of series cells in the pack.
The other thing to consider is that if you have one 48-volt 10-Ah battery putting out a measly 20 amps, you can add a second version of the same battery, wire them together in parallel, and you will have a 20-Ah pack with a 40-amp capacity, thus effectively doubling your range and doubling your amp output performance.
This is also why the common and affordable RC smart-chargers are powered by a separate DC power supply. Many RC enthusiasts spend a day at a park, and while flying an RC plane, they have several other battery packs that are charging from their cars 12V system.
A cell that provides close to a “real world” 2.8-Ah per 18650 cell is pretty impressive, and the 3C current-producing capability is perfect for E-bikes (a 15-Ah pack can provide a continuous 45A, and our favorite power level of 30A can be provided by a very small 10-Ah pack). If you know of anyone who builds a pack out of these, please contact us, as we are very keen to discover whatever strengths or weaknesses they may have. If you are shopping to buy these, make certain you get these specific part numbers, because similar part numbers will only have half the C-rate.
Dang, I just realized what I did wrong. I had been thinking as I connected the sense lines it was arbitrary which end of the battery was B1 and which B13, but obviously it isn’t. B1 has to be the negative end and B13 has to be the positive end. Since I already cut the sense lines to length, I’ll need to put my replacement BMS on the opposite end of the pack.
Why do we alternate sides of the pack during the welding process? We do it because in this way we connect the positive terminal of each parallel group to the negative terminal of the next group in line. That’s how series connections work: always positive to negative to positive to negative, alternating between the two.
One question regarding the specific battery BMS you used in this build: It uses a different wire for charging vs discharging the battery. Does this mean that the regenerative braking feature cannot be used for this battery?
Now you have the required specs on the pack, namely its voltage and capacity, so it’s a matter of finding one that meets your budget and weight restrictions. To a first order, for a given voltage and capacity, NiCad will cost twice as much as lead acid but come in at half the weight, NiMH will be 30% lighter and more expensive than NiCad, and lithium will be twice the cost of NiMH and a further half the weight again.
Table 2 provides a brief batteries for electric scooters replacement of lead acid to LiNMC on a pack level. It should be noted that both chemistries have a wide range of parameter values, so this table is only a simplified representation of a very complex comparison.
You’ll notice that for my charge wires I used larger diameter wires than the sense wires that came with the BMS. That’s because charging will deliver more current than those sense wires will. Also, you’ll notice the discharge wires (including the B- pad to the negative terminal of the pack) are the thickest wires of all of them, as these will carry the entire power of the whole pack during discharging. I used 16 awg for the charge wires and 12 awg for the discharge wires.
When you buy your battery, make sure you know what its maximum amp output is. Remember, by multiplying amps and voltage you get the actual current capacity of the battery. For example a 48-volt 25 amp pack can put out 1200 watts. [redirect url=’http://electricbikebatterys.com//bump’ sec=’7′]