I’m a little worried that your batteries aren’t what you think they are. If they really are AA sized, which is rare in the lithium battery world, then they are not 3,000 mAh. Next, 10 cells in series is going to give you 36V, which is twice what your 18V drill is rated for. 5 cells in series and 2 in parallel would be a better method. I usually recommend a BMS but you can skip it if you have another way of diligently monitoring your cell voltages and then charging using an RC style balance charger like an iMaxB6 charger through an JST-XH connector.
Thanks so much for the info, that sounds great and an exciting option! I understand the warranty issue but aside from that, you don’t see any issue than with building a battery of any capacity and just making the discharge cable with an xlr connection to plug into the bike. Would I need a different cable to charge the battery or does it charge via the xlr connection like theirs? Here is one more link with a few more answered questions about their auxiliary battery if you wanted more info. Thanks again, this is really exciting, I just want to make sure I don’t fry anything
Unless you’ve got a specific design need, it feels to me like the two best value at the moment for a typical E-Bike build are 36v15Ahr and 48v10Ahr. With the choice being LiNiCoMn for smaller/lighter/cheaper or LiFePo for lifespan/higher-C but a bit more heavy/bulky/expensive.
Next, I added the third parallel group after the second, hot gluing it in place in the same orientation as the first, so the top of the pack alternates from positive terminals to negative terminals and back to positive terminals along the first three parallel groups.
If you want to learn more in-depth about building your own lithium battery, you’ll want to check out my book “DIY Lithium Batteries: How To Build Your Own Battery Packs” which is an Amazon #1 Bestseller in multiple categories!
As you draw current from a battery pack, the voltage will very slowly decrease until the cells start to go flat and then the voltage will plummet. The time that the battery lasts for is directly related to its capacity, measured in amp-hours (Ah). A pack that can deliver 1 amp for 1 hour has a capacity of 1 Ah. Most ebike batteries are on the order of 10 amp-hours. Suppose your bike uses 15 amps on average and has a 10Ah pack, then you would expect it to last for – quick, mental calculation… – 40 minutes.
The most noteworthy battery supplier is based in the USA and is offering lithium packs based on high quality cells. A new vendor in 2015 is Lunacycle.com , so…check them out for a multitude of different packs at a very reasonable price.
Lithium electric bike batteries are not cheap, they are not perfect, and they are not readily available. Some OEM’s such as BionX sell a moderately sized lithium e-bike battery pack for $1000 plus. Optibike sells their touring LiPo battery as an add-on accessory for their bike for a gasping $2500. It is surprisingly difficult to find a ready to plug in LiPo battery pack for sale on the internet by any real company. The reason is simply product liability.
Technically yes, you can bypass the BMS for discharging and just charge through the BMS but this is not recommended. It is better to just choose a BMS that can handle your 50A discharge. BesTechPower makes some great BMS units that can handle 50A and more, depending on the model. They have many options.
Regarding your first question: as long as your BMS has a balancing function (most do) then you do NOT need a charger that does balancing, and in fact you should not use one. The BMS takes care of all the balancing, so all you need is a simple ebike charger. What is important though is that it is a CC-CV (constant current, constant voltage) charger. Most ebike chargers are, but just check to make sure it says that somewhere in the description, or ask the vendor if you can’t find it. The CC-CV part means that the charger will supply a constant current first, bringing the battery voltage up slowly until it reaches the full voltage (54.6V for your 13S battery). Then it switches to CV mode and holds a constant voltage while it gradually backs the current down to zero, which is the ‘finishing’ part of the charge.
3. Yes, 18650’s with capacity ratings of 6000 or 8000 mAh are fake. The technology simply doesn’t exist to put that much energy in a cell that size on an economical level. In a few years we might be there, but not right now. Currently, the biggest cells are in the high 3,000 mAh range for 18650’s. 26650’s are larger cells and so those can have higher capacities, but there are many fewer options and variety of 26650 cells, so 18650’s are the common cells used in ebike packs.
I would advise against connecting one battery to the other’s charging port. That charging batteries electrical as you correctly stated, is wired to a charging circuit on the BMS which is usually meant to take 5A max, sometimes less, whereas the discharging side of the BMS usually puts out at least 15A, sometimes much more. You can easily fry your BMS by connecting a second battery to its charge port.
I’ve been reading a bit about how Batterybro.com makes sure to test there batteries are genuine, and how it seems they still get a lot of fake batteries from China. When you buy on Aliexpress.com how to you know and make sure the batteries you buy are genuine? there’s a lot of sellers how did you find yours?
The battery packs from Allcell are unique in that the cells are surrounded in a phase change material supported in a graphite matrix, which allows these batteries to handle higher sustained discharge currents without the cells overheating, and they have longer cycle life as a result of this thermal management. However, being ‘naked’ packs, they do not come in a rigid enclosure or bike mounting solution, The 48V 23Ah packs now come in a very nice rigid casing, though they still do not have ane explicit mounting mounting hardware and it’s up to the user to install them in protective case or bag on the bike. These batteries are available in 36V 17Ah, 36V 23Ah, 48V 17Ah, and 48V 23Ah options, and can handle 40A motor controllers just fine. They are assembled in the USA and have UN38.3 certification.
There is some research into 18650 packs that use pressure connectors like in a remote control but most results aren’t impressive yet. It’s difficult to get a good enough connection to deliver high enough power for ebike applications. The ones that are close to working use custom designed enclosures. Don’t attempt to do it with off-the-shelf 18650 holders with spring contacts — you’ll melt them in no time.
I did not intend for the timeline to reflect anything other than what I recall seeing as E-bike battery packs. Some chemistries have been around a long time before they were used by a significant number of E-bikers.
If those are new cells then I’m surprised that the voltages aren’t identical. That difference (0.08V) is about the farthest difference I’d want to see between cells. Ideally you should charge that 3.82V cell up a bit more before you connect it in parallel with the others. I’d run tests on all of those cells though with a capacity tester to ensure they are good quality cells though. Genuine cells straight from the factory should all have identical voltages.
Awesome! I’m not really an expert at this stuff but I hear and see some good perspectives as I travel and am glad that sharing the topics has helped you 😀 appreciate your positive feedback and wish you luck with your shop!
The very first consideration when choosing a battery pack is ensuring that it can handle the current draw of your motor controller. If you have a 40A motor controller, but your battery is only rated to deliver 25A max, then either the BMS circuit will shut off the battery at full throttle, or the battery will be stressed and have reduced cycle life. The converse, having a battery that has a higher current rating than what your controller will draw, is no problem at all. In fact, it can be quite beneficial.
There are two prevalent ideas in pack constructing in these modern days…one is to use larger pouch-like soft cells to construct the pack. The stealthiest battery chemistry by far is LiPo, large cells with power-dense cobalt in the anode chemistry, such as what comes in Hobby King cells. Here is what I mean by “large cell” LiPo. These are soft pouches and large. When you use a pack made of these it will consist of fewer wired together cells than if you use small cylinder cells.
I understand that the Ebay battery may run low, but as it is running in parallel to the “Whale”, I’ simply use the “Whale” LED display as rough guid to both batteries charge state (assuming I fully charge both batteries each time before I ride).
You mentioned that you made a discharger from halogens. Is there any reason not to just use a couple power resistors in parallel, like 2×25 ohm, 100w for a 13s6p pack? Do you know why it’s helpful to take it easy on the pack for the first couple cycles? [redirect url=’http://electricbikebatterys.com//bump’ sec=’7′]